Why am I here? Sometimes I learn something sometimes I am just enjoying myself. Don’t take it so personally when I say that if your religion teaches you to hate people there is something wrong with it that applies to anyone not just you. Mark an Greg are to dogmatic to discuss anything reasonably but I find them greatly amusing.
I didn’t say you hated anybody you did.
Panentheism: A Buddhist Perspective (Part 5)
New Lotus
Wong Weng Hon
2011-11-02 【Share to Friend】 【Print Friendly】 Nowadays, while I am travelling esoterically into esoteric realm of world major scriptures of Hinduism, Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Bahaism, I am being overwhelmed with the spiritual exuberance of Unity of religion. It is unveiled from the doctrine of panentheism or madhyamikaism. I see non-dichotomy or non-dualism or unity espoused by every world major religion. It brings all of us so much closer together not in theory but in Reality. Paradoxically, human beings are so disunited among themselves. Every religion teaches Unity. Yet, many religious adherents create disunity. As a full lover of religion, this saddens me really. This constitutes the suffering of perversion driven by ignorance. Religion trains us panentheistically to see “I-you” dichotomy as a false perception of fragmentation. Yet many worship dichotomy and hurt others. Subject-object dichotomy is a false view of fragmentation. Subject-predicate dichotomy is also a false paradigm of fragmentation. Substance-attribute dichotomy is too an erroneous view of fragmentation. Fragmentation is unreal. Fragmentation is a false mental construct of a sentient or carnal being. A sentient or carnal being sees fragmentation of multiplicity. They fail to discern the underlying integration of Unity. Unity is transcendence of the Lord and multiplicity is immanence of the Lord. The paradoxical unity of transcendence and immanence is panentheism. The whole mass of suffering is originated from mentally fabricated fragmentation. Unobstructive interpenetration between the relative phenomena and ultimate Principle is madhyamikaism. Madhyamikaism is essentially panentheism though the terminology may differ.
In Monotheism, fragmentation is sin of being separated from God. Sin is suffering due to God’s wrath. God’s wrath functions through human consciousness. The empirical world is consciousness only (vijnana matrata). Fragmentation is duality consciousness. Duality is arisen from dualistic worldview. Dualistic worldview is false worldview. Duality is negation of God. Mankind suffers due to negation of God. Only Non-duality worldview is perfect worldview. Non-duality worldview is perfect Godview. It is affirmation of God. Buddhism and Monotheism can thus be reconciled ontologically and soteriologically. Owing to the habitual wrong paradigm of duality, all sentient beings are living in fragmentation, physically, emotionally, mentally and thus unhappily. Fragmentation creates unskilled karma or sin. Unskilled karma or sin arisen from fragmentation or dualistic perception of the empirical world is the root cause of human suffering.
In Buddhism, a fragmentation is self (atta). Sakyamuni Buddha proclaims that only Non-self (Anatta) or Unity is the Ultimate Reality. Monotheistically, only God is Real and anything separated from God is unreal. Sakyamuni Buddha, Ramakhrisna, Lao-tzu, Jesus Christ and Muhammad teach the perennial Truth that self is unreal and only Non-self is Real. Non-self is God; God is Non-self. The self is idol or mere designation which does not exist ultimately. The worshipper does not exist and the worshipped idol does not exist. Whoever masters the Truth of Non-duality truly knows what God (Non-duality) is. Knowledge of God (Non-duality) or Non-self (Anatta) annihilates human suffering (attainment of salvation). God or Anatta is the central subject of all world major religions to be intuitively apprehended to obtain release from suffering or to gain salvation. Metaphorically put, thus, there are many different lamps (religions) but the light (Truth)is the same. There are many diverse brands of transport vehicles. Every vehicle does the same function of transportation to arrive as the destination desired. The communal purpose of life is the aspiration for ending of suffering or attainment of salvation. Generally put, this common hidden vehicle is known as God by which the destination of summit of spirituality is reached.
The scriptures of Monotheism (Judaism; Christianity; Islam) emphasize that whoever knows himself knows the Lord (God). God is to be known through human consciousness. God is always present in human consciousness. Therefore, God is closer than the jugular vein in everyone of us. When one dies physically, consciousness never dies. Hence, God is eternally alive together with consciousness. Since God is always present, how could God not see whatever one does in life? Succinctly put, Non-duality in Man always exists and knows. Seeing God as Non-duality, one knows God. Ordinary people are habitually conditioned by duality that they miss God. God is to known through Non-duality and nothing else. Non-duality is perennial religion of Oneness of Being: One Life for All; All for One Life. Those who miss God suffer incessantly. Those who see God are eternally blissful. When one thinks dualistically, God Consciousness exists negatively. Dualistic consciousness invites God’s wrath. Conversely, when one thinks non-dualistically, God Consciousness exists positively. Non-dualistic consciousness is union with God. Divine union invites blessedness. What we sow so shall we reap. The Buddhist law of cause and effect is God functioning through Divine blessing and wrath. Do not be confused by differing terminology employed. The same Truth operates everywhere. This same Truth is preached dissimilarly through different praxis of ritualism and doctrines in diverge religions. Panentheism asserts that God exists in the world or in everything to create as well as to liberate. Causally put, when one thinks wholesomely and does good, God or Non-duality rewards a human being through wholesome human consciousness. Unwholesome consciousness is unwholesome action (karma). Unwholesome karma reaps unwholesome fruit (phala). When one thinks unwholesomely and commits evil, God or Non-duality punishes a human being through unwholesome consciousness. Unwholesome consciousness is unwholesome karma. Unwholesome karma reaps unwholesome phala. The karma is God; the phala is also God. This is how the Ultimate Truth of Non-duality is to be comprehended. This explains omnipresence (all-present) omnipotence (all-powerful) and omniscience (all-knowing) of God through the perception of Non-duality. The action is God; the reaction is also God. God must be interpreted panentheistically in terms of Non-duality. Non-duality is the Unity of cause and effect. Sufism teaches that the cause is God; the effect is also God. This mirrors the inseparability between cause and effect. The One is process Reality of Non-duality. Therefore, Non-duality is God (Highest Truth). Everything is God. Everything is Emptiness (Sunyata; Kenosis; Tawhid; Advaita). Emptiness is the true nature of God. Panentheism must be interpreted in terms of Non-duality to bridge all world major religions through communal Truth of perennial wisdom of Oneness of Being. When God is defined in terms of Non-duality or panentheism, all world religions are identical esoterically. When God is defined in terms of duality or mere theism or mere pantheism, many world religions become contrary. They can not be reconciled esoterically. Non-duality and panentheism reconcile all world religions esoterically. Interfaith dialogue based on dualism is mere assumption. Interfaith dialogue based on Non-dualism reflects the Ultimate Reality. There is only one Ultimate Reality, the Oneness of Being. If God is defined in terms of classical theism, Buddhism is NOT theism. If God is defined in terms of pantheism, Buddhism is also NOT theism. If and only if God is defined in terms of panentheism, Buddhism is comprehensive theism. Buddhism is comprehensive theism if and only if God is defined as Non-dualism or panentheism. Both Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism are essentially panentheism. Briefly put, panentheism is middle philosophy of madhyama pratipat, the central theme of Buddhism.
Vedanta of Hinduism captivates me most as it emphatically stresses that all paths (different religions) lead to the same God or Highest Truth. The Vedanta scriptures are late or end of Hindu Upanisads. Upanisads are the authoritative commentaries on the Vedas. The quintessence of Vedas is the eternal Truth (sanatana Dharma) of panentheistic cosmology parallel to that of Chinese Confucian Classic of I-Ching (Book of Changes). I-Ching Classic is parallel to Jewish Kabbalah Classic of Sefer Yezirah (Book of Creation) in terms of panentheistic cosmology. The central theme of panentheism states that the changing world is self-manifestation of God or Emptiness (Sunyata). The manifest created and the unmanifest Uncreated are one. Human destiny can be improved by improving or enriching contigent conditions of physical and mental factors. Monotheistic Kenotic God or Buddhist Emptiness is synonymous with Taoist Wu-chi. Wu-chi is the Unity of yin and yang opposite forces. Unity of yin and yang is synonymous with Kabbalah doctrine of Unity of Opposites (Coincidentia Oppositorum). The central theme of panentheism or madhymakaism is the Unity of Opposites (coincidentia oppositorum).
Politically put, “One Life” refers to a united nation and “All” refers to citizenry and non-citizenry contributing to cohesive national building. Western political ideology of responsible democracy, freedom and mutual respect for fundamental human rights are implicitly and explicitly connected to the theology of panentheism. Consequently, implicit application of panentheism in the West and Oceania have attracted brain drains there from all corners of the world. Comparative lack of democracy, freedom and mutual respect are the root causes of the migration of the brain drains to the West and Oceania.
Frithjof Schuon, one of the leading Sufi philosopher and author depicts the world exquisitely. He wrote in his book “ Sufism: Veil and Quintessence” thus: “The world is the nothingness that hides itself behind a thousand masks; each of these masks want to draw the ego from God.” The egoes are constantly drawing us from the Absolute. We must be watchfully mindful. Living in the current of egoes created by the world of egoes, we must remember the Lord or Absolute. Rememberance (sati;dhikr) is right mindfulness. In Monotheism, rememberance is contemplative prayer of the heart. In Buddhism, rememberance is insight meditation of four foundations of mindfulness (cattaro satipatthana). The Pure Land Mahayana practioners remember the Buddha by unceasing recitation of the name of Amitabha (nianfo; nembutsu) wherever they are. They carry beads to help them in nianfo or nembutsu (unceasing recitation of the name of the Buddha). We must not underestimate the value of nianfo practice relative to Zen practice. If nianfo is practised with one-pointed concentration (samadhi) without clinging (upadana) to anything, nianfo practice is immediately transmuted into Chan practice. The practioner gains immediate reunion with the Buddha, that is entrance into the world of Non-duality. The world of Non-duality is the experience of Chan or Zen.
The Absolute is God transcendence. It is metaphorically compared to the unmoved centre from which countless concentric circles can be drawn. Every circle represents a determinate or complete creature or conditioned phenomenon. The infinity refers to the unlimited circles (creatures or phenomena) that can be drawn from the one fixed centre of all circles created. Therefore, the infinity represents the God immanence in the world. Every complete created circle represents a complete creature. Every complete creature is a perfection of God. The centre of all circles is the transcendence of God beyond the world. This centre is unmoved while it is used to others. This mirrors that penentheistic God can be fully illustrated with the mathematics of geometry. Thus panentheism bridges science or mathematics with theology.
Quantum Physicists Nicls Bohr and Werner Heisenbers, both Physics Nobel Prize winners postulated the Theory of Quantum Physics in terms of panentheism or madhymakaism. Quantum Theory posits that the Reality of the world is two-fold, namely finite dualistic appearance of the systemic parts and infinite non-dualistic Reality of systemic Unity. Quantum Theory unveils that the world is constituted from reified myriad objects whose existence is contigent upon human consciousness. The spiritually enlightened quantum physicists decipher the ocean of quantum world as the ocean of panentheistic God or madhyamika Buddha. The quantum world is the product of human consciousness. Consciousness is panentheistic God or madhyamika Buddha.
Western Jewish Scholar, Martin Buber who authored “ I and You” to espouse the Ultimate Reality of Non-duality as God affirmed that the God Mind of Moses and Jesus Christ does not differ from Tao Mind of Lao-tzu and Buddha Mind of Sakyamuni Buddha. Martin Buber, well known for philosophy of dialogue, was particularly fabulous in expounding human communion with God in terms of Non-duality through radiation of the love of neighbor. I concur with Martin Buber’s theological approach in defining God or Non-duality through human communion, consciousness and good relationship constructed upon love. In unitive love, precepts or commandments are not transgressed. God or Buddha experience is not just contemplation or meditation. Divine or enlightened experience is also unitive or wholistic relationship of love. This is most important.
Panentheism: A Buddhist Perspective New Lotus
Wong Weng Hon
2011-11-02
Nowadays, while I am travelling esoterically into esoteric realm of world major scriptures of Hinduism, Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Bahaism, I am being overwhelmed with the spiritual exuberance of Unity of religion. It is unveiled from the doctrine of panentheism or madhyamikaism. I see non-dichotomy or non-dualism or unity espoused by every world major religion. It brings all of us so much closer together not in theory but in Reality. Paradoxically, human beings are so disunited among themselves. Every religion teaches Unity. Yet, many religious adherents create disunity. As a full lover of religion, this saddens me really. This constitutes the suffering of perversion driven by ignorance. Religion trains us panentheistically to see “I-you” dichotomy as a false perception of fragmentation. Yet many worship dichotomy and hurt others. Subject-object dichotomy is a false view of fragmentation. Subject-predicate dichotomy is also a false paradigm of fragmentation. Substance-attribute dichotomy is too an erroneous view of fragmentation. Fragmentation is unreal. Fragmentation is a false mental construct of a sentient or carnal being. A sentient or carnal being sees fragmentation of multiplicity. They fail to discern the underlying integration of Unity. Unity is transcendence of the Lord and multiplicity is immanence of the Lord. The paradoxical unity of transcendence and immanence is panentheism. The whole mass of suffering is originated from mentally fabricated fragmentation. Unobstructive interpenetration between the relative phenomena and ultimate Principle is madhyamikaism. Madhyamikaism is essentially panentheism though the terminology may differ.
In Monotheism, fragmentation is sin of being separated from God. Sin is suffering due to God’s wrath. God’s wrath functions through human consciousness. The empirical world is consciousness only (vijnana matrata). Fragmentation is duality consciousness. Duality is arisen from dualistic worldview. Dualistic worldview is false worldview. Duality is negation of God. Mankind suffers due to negation of God. Only Non-duality worldview is perfect worldview. Non-duality worldview is perfect Godview. It is affirmation of God. Buddhism and Monotheism can thus be reconciled ontologically and soteriologically. Owing to the habitual wrong paradigm of duality, all sentient beings are living in fragmentation, physically, emotionally, mentally and thus unhappily. Fragmentation creates unskilled karma or sin. Unskilled karma or sin arisen from fragmentation or dualistic perception of the empirical world is the root cause of human suffering.
In Buddhism, a fragmentation is self (atta). Sakyamuni Buddha proclaims that only Non-self (Anatta) or Unity is the Ultimate Reality. Monotheistically, only God is Real and anything separated from God is unreal. Sakyamuni Buddha, Ramakhrisna, Lao-tzu, Jesus Christ and Muhammad teach the perennial Truth that self is unreal and only Non-self is Real. Non-self is God; God is Non-self. The self is idol or mere designation which does not exist ultimately. The worshipper does not exist and the worshipped idol does not exist. Whoever masters the Truth of Non-duality truly knows what God (Non-duality) is. Knowledge of God (Non-duality) or Non-self (Anatta) annihilates human suffering (attainment of salvation). God or Anatta is the central subject of all world major religions to be intuitively apprehended to obtain release from suffering or to gain salvation. Metaphorically put, thus, there are many different lamps (religions) but the light (Truth)is the same. There are many diverse brands of transport vehicles. Every vehicle does the same function of transportation to arrive as the destination desired. The communal purpose of life is the aspiration for ending of suffering or attainment of salvation. Generally put, this common hidden vehicle is known as God by which the destination of summit of spirituality is reached.
The scriptures of Monotheism (Judaism; Christianity; Islam) emphasize that whoever knows himself knows the Lord (God). God is to be known through human consciousness. God is always present in human consciousness. Therefore, God is closer than the jugular vein in everyone of us. When one dies physically, consciousness never dies. Hence, God is eternally alive together with consciousness. Since God is always present, how could God not see whatever one does in life? Succinctly put, Non-duality in Man always exists and knows. Seeing God as Non-duality, one knows God. Ordinary people are habitually conditioned by duality that they miss God. God is to known through Non-duality and nothing else. Non-duality is perennial religion of Oneness of Being: One Life for All; All for One Life. Those who miss God suffer incessantly. Those who see God are eternally blissful. When one thinks dualistically, God Consciousness exists negatively. Dualistic consciousness invites God’s wrath. Conversely, when one thinks non-dualistically, God Consciousness exists positively. Non-dualistic consciousness is union with God. Divine union invites blessedness. What we sow so shall we reap. The Buddhist law of cause and effect is God functioning through Divine blessing and wrath. Do not be confused by differing terminology employed. The same Truth operates everywhere. This same Truth is preached dissimilarly through different praxis of ritualism and doctrines in diverge religions. Panentheism asserts that God exists in the world or in everything to create as well as to liberate. Causally put, when one thinks wholesomely and does good, God or Non-duality rewards a human being through wholesome human consciousness. Unwholesome consciousness is unwholesome action (karma). Unwholesome karma reaps unwholesome fruit (phala). When one thinks unwholesomely and commits evil, God or Non-duality punishes a human being through unwholesome consciousness. Unwholesome consciousness is unwholesome karma. Unwholesome karma reaps unwholesome phala. The karma is God; the phala is also God. This is how the Ultimate Truth of Non-duality is to be comprehended. This explains omnipresence (all-present) omnipotence (all-powerful) and omniscience (all-knowing) of God through the perception of Non-duality. The action is God; the reaction is also God. God must be interpreted panentheistically in terms of Non-duality. Non-duality is the Unity of cause and effect. Sufism teaches that the cause is God; the effect is also God. This mirrors the inseparability between cause and effect. The One is process Reality of Non-duality. Therefore, Non-duality is God (Highest Truth). Everything is God. Everything is Emptiness (Sunyata; Kenosis; Tawhid; Advaita). Emptiness is the true nature of God. Panentheism must be interpreted in terms of Non-duality to bridge all world major religions through communal Truth of perennial wisdom of Oneness of Being. When God is defined in terms of Non-duality or panentheism, all world religions are identical esoterically. When God is defined in terms of duality or mere theism or mere pantheism, many world religions become contrary. They can not be reconciled esoterically. Non-duality and panentheism reconcile all world religions esoterically. Interfaith dialogue based on dualism is mere assumption. Interfaith dialogue based on Non-dualism reflects the Ultimate Reality. There is only one Ultimate Reality, the Oneness of Being. If God is defined in terms of classical theism, Buddhism is NOT theism. If God is defined in terms of pantheism, Buddhism is also NOT theism. If and only if God is defined in terms of panentheism, Buddhism is comprehensive theism. Buddhism is comprehensive theism if and only if God is defined as Non-dualism or panentheism. Both Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism are essentially panentheism. Briefly put, panentheism is middle philosophy of madhyama pratipat, the central theme of Buddhism.
Vedanta of Hinduism captivates me most as it emphatically stresses that all paths (different religions) lead to the same God or Highest Truth. The Vedanta scriptures are late or end of Hindu Upanisads. Upanisads are the authoritative commentaries on the Vedas. The quintessence of Vedas is the eternal Truth (sanatana Dharma) of panentheistic cosmology parallel to that of Chinese Confucian Classic of I-Ching (Book of Changes). I-Ching Classic is parallel to Jewish Kabbalah Classic of Sefer Yezirah (Book of Creation) in terms of panentheistic cosmology. The central theme of panentheism states that the changing world is self-manifestation of God or Emptiness (Sunyata). The manifest created and the unmanifest Uncreated are one. Human destiny can be improved by improving or enriching contigent conditions of physical and mental factors. Monotheistic Kenotic God or Buddhist Emptiness is synonymous with Taoist Wu-chi. Wu-chi is the Unity of yin and yang opposite forces. Unity of yin and yang is synonymous with Kabbalah doctrine of Unity of Opposites (Coincidentia Oppositorum). The central theme of panentheism or madhymakaism is the Unity of Opposites (coincidentia oppositorum).
Politically put, “One Life” refers to a united nation and “All” refers to citizenry and non-citizenry contributing to cohesive national building. Western political ideology of responsible democracy, freedom and mutual respect for fundamental human rights are implicitly and explicitly connected to the theology of panentheism. Consequently, implicit application of panentheism in the West and Oceania have attracted brain drains there from all corners of the world. Comparative lack of democracy, freedom and mutual respect are the root causes of the migration of the brain drains to the West and Oceania.
Frithjof Schuon, one of the leading Sufi philosopher and author depicts the world exquisitely. He wrote in his book “ Sufism: Veil and Quintessence” thus: “The world is the nothingness that hides itself behind a thousand masks; each of these masks want to draw the ego from God.” The egoes are constantly drawing us from the Absolute. We must be watchfully mindful. Living in the current of egoes created by the world of egoes, we must remember the Lord or Absolute. Rememberance (sati;dhikr) is right mindfulness. In Monotheism, rememberance is contemplative prayer of the heart. In Buddhism, rememberance is insight meditation of four foundations of mindfulness (cattaro satipatthana). The Pure Land Mahayana practioners remember the Buddha by unceasing recitation of the name of Amitabha (nianfo; nembutsu) wherever they are. They carry beads to help them in nianfo or nembutsu (unceasing recitation of the name of the Buddha). We must not underestimate the value of nianfo practice relative to Zen practice. If nianfo is practised with one-pointed concentration (samadhi) without clinging (upadana) to anything, nianfo practice is immediately transmuted into Chan practice. The practioner gains immediate reunion with the Buddha, that is entrance into the world of Non-duality. The world of Non-duality is the experience of Chan or Zen.
The Absolute is God transcendence. It is metaphorically compared to the unmoved centre from which countless concentric circles can be drawn. Every circle represents a determinate or complete creature or conditioned phenomenon. The infinity refers to the unlimited circles (creatures or phenomena) that can be drawn from the one fixed centre of all circles created. Therefore, the infinity represents the God immanence in the world. Every complete created circle represents a complete creature. Every complete creature is a perfection of God. The centre of all circles is the transcendence of God beyond the world. This centre is unmoved while it is used to others. This mirrors that penentheistic God can be fully illustrated with the mathematics of geometry. Thus panentheism bridges science or mathematics with theology.
Quantum Physicists Nicls Bohr and Werner Heisenbers, both Physics Nobel Prize winners postulated the Theory of Quantum Physics in terms of panentheism or madhymakaism. Quantum Theory posits that the Reality of the world is two-fold, namely finite dualistic appearance of the systemic parts and infinite non-dualistic Reality of systemic Unity. Quantum Theory unveils that the world is constituted from reified myriad objects whose existence is contigent upon human consciousness. The spiritually enlightened quantum physicists decipher the ocean of quantum world as the ocean of panentheistic God or madhyamika Buddha. The quantum world is the product of human consciousness. Consciousness is panentheistic God or madhyamika Buddha.
Western Jewish Scholar, Martin Buber who authored “ I and You” to espouse the Ultimate Reality of Non-duality as God affirmed that the God Mind of Moses and Jesus Christ does not differ from Tao Mind of Lao-tzu and Buddha Mind of Sakyamuni Buddha. Martin Buber, well known for philosophy of dialogue, was particularly fabulous in expounding human communion with God in terms of Non-duality through radiation of the love of neighbor. I concur with Martin Buber’s theological approach in defining God or Non-duality through human communion, consciousness and good relationship constructed upon love. In unitive love, precepts or commandments are not transgressed. God or Buddha experience is not just contemplation or meditation. Divine or enlightened experience is also unitive or wholistic relationship of love. This is most important.
My post sare being deleted. I consider it a forfeit. Carry on losers.
You missed one point. Again, I didn’t say I hate PEOPLE, I hate IDEOLOGIES. You are also denying that(other than the asian religions-Hinduism, Buddhism, to a point Daolism), most all of them DENY Cause and Effect because of the belief in original sin. That is the main point Nichiren refutes when he rebukes other belief systems and philosophies. Also, the religions you mention are NOT about creating unity(aside from perhaps provisional Buddhism), but the Abrahamic faiths(if you read Sam Harris or Richard Dawkins or anyone else like that that I used to study) are about violence predominately, not about creating unity among us “heathens”.
This is the last reply I am giving over this because we are going nowhere. You think that, I think this. I’m done.
I guess we couldn’t be more different I don’t hate ideas, they just give me something to think about. I do hate people who do things I think are wrong, I never went along with the whole hate the sin but love the sinner, I blame the sinner for the sin.
Absolutely Friend. If a doctor suspects abuse and doesn’t report it, he is held lible. Clown would say, “that is different then our rebuke of slanderers. Who is SGI abusing? No one.” He was never so entrenched in SGI to have witnessed the abuse first hand. Psychological abuse can be as bad as physical abuse. He doesn’t understand that, even if SGI is a minor good, if it takes time and focus away from a major good, according to Nichiren, it is a major evil.
Well Mark you guys condemn every other religion, every other sect of Buddhism, and every other sect of Nichiren Buddhism. You reserve your greatest condemnation for SGI who introduced you to the faith. You kept the faith but found another manifestation. You think you can refight the battles that Nichiren had and rebuking people seems the primary point of your practice.
Maybe the bigest discrepency is that you believe the sutra was spoken by the historical Shakyamuni Budda because the tradition says so, while I agree with scholars who say it was not. For one thing he wouldn’t be speaking of Mahayana and Hinayana because they didn’t exist during his lifetime. So to me your faith is in something illusary while you say I have no faith.
You are right to say I haven’t witnessed the abuses you endlessly describe, what I have seen is many many people happy to have found this practice and glad for the support they find from other members, maybe I’m just fortunate or maybe you can always find whatever your looking for.
I don’t think there are many people of whatever religion who don’t believe in cause and effect. I think the tendency of the fundamentalist is to attack the non-believer by whatever means they can and truth and facts fall by the wayside.
So while I might think you are deluded, I also think you will prosper because hate and fear sell. I still say love is the answer and I don’t care if I’m the only one.
Stace: Hi Mark, Did you read his article on “How the Mahayana Began”? He points out that in the essay you provide the “Corruption” of the Pali texts. The same could be applied to the Mahayana. Can you tell How this is possible: Chapter 10: The Teacher of the Law – This chapter presents the five practices of the teachers of the Lotus Sutra. These practices are accepting and upholding, reading, chanting, explaining and writing the Sutra. The Sutra begins, “Thus I Have Heard”. Ananda ,the Buddhas attendant recalling verbally, (orally) what the Buddha said. How and why would the Buddha then instruct the “hearers” of this sutra to READ & WRITE it?
Mark: I just read it. I’m sure you are aware of one of the honorific titles of the Buddha, “Omniscience”. Gombrich disagrees with Rys David, whether “books” were mentioned in the canon. The Buddha who talked about the decline, not only of his teachings but of the capacities of individuals, would have realized that one day his words would be lost lest they were written down. Tientai and Nichiren taught that the Lotus Sutra was not ostensibly taught for the people of the Middle Day, let alone for the people of the Former Day. Why would anyone believe that such capable monks who could memorize thousands of lines of oral texts were incapable of keeping secret, a teaching meant for a later time? These were highly disciplined men, unlike our present day politicians and heads of state who have successfully kept secrets [documents] for hundreds or even thousands of years. This is hardly an anomally but rather a misunderstanding of the greatness of the Buddha and his followers.
Stace: Other anomalies in the sutra are the use of the term Hinayana and Mahayana. In the Buddha’s time there was only the Buddha,Dharma, Sangha. No distinction of any Yanas. How could these terms be uttered by the Buddha or his followers when they hadn’t yet been created and would have no meaning?
Mark: Nearly the entire Buddhist Canon is devoted to to correcting wrong thought. It is only natural that the words “Hinayana” and “Mahayana” were inserted when these words came into being. They don’t change the principles, “inferior superficial thought and its adherents” and “superior profound thought and their adherents”. The argument that principles were added to the Lotus Sutra, is false because we can find within the Lotus Sutra the principles of the Ten Worlds, their mutual posession, the 1000 factors and the 3000 Worlds as well as the the Three Treasures and Three Great Secret Laws. It is taught that the leaves of the Sanskrit Lotus Sutra Kumarajiva used to translate the Lotus Sutra were incomplete. Most notably, the Second Chapter of the Lotus Sutra that he used, only contained two of the Ten Factors and eight factors were added by Kumarajiva. Even were this true, an Enlightened Mahahsattva Master translator, having such immense talent and wisdom, most certainly could piece the puzzle together, not unlike a master restorer who can make whole again an incomplete work of art, antique, or building. It too is not likely that Kumarajiva, having hundreds of disciples to assist him and the emperor’s financial assistance for his translation project and access to the most complete extant Lotus Sutra and he didn’t even have to fill in one word.
Stace: You wrote, “By the way, what I was referring to in the original post is the contention of some that the “Nikayas” are the actual words of the Buddha while the Lotus Sutra is not.”
All he is talking about are “corruptions” of the pali. I don’t see him addressing the validity of the Lotus Sutra as the actual words of the Buddha. This is what I thought, read “How the Mahayana Began”. He doesn’t necessariy refute your position.
Mark: Not him but others. Gombrich, in many ways supports our position. That is why I cited him, even though his understanding of the mind of the Buddha and the nature of the Sangha is incomplete.
Stace: You state that my summation is in err that SGI is a legitimate form of Buddhism in accord with teachings of Nichiren. I am arguing that “Nichiren Buddhism” and any lineage born from his teaching is valid because of the arguments put forth in the article you present so long as the purpose is Liberation.
Mark: I am very sorry if anyone misconstrues that the import of citing this article in any way supports the validity of Ikedaism and Gakkaism. Of course, this was not my intent. I don’t consider SGI to be Buddhism even though it has borrowed extensively from Buddhism. No Buddha no Buddhahood is my contention.
Stace: I base it off of this excerpt:
”These processes are not random (adhicca-samuppanna) but causally determined. Any empirical phenomenon is seen as a causal sequence, and that applies to the sāsana too. ‘One thing leads to another,’ as the English idiom has it. Whether or not we can see features common to the religion of Mr Richard Causton, the late leader of the UK branch of Soka Gakkai International,(we could add here Kempon Hokke or any other Nichiren based group) and that of Nāgārjuna, or of the Buddha himself, there is a train of human events which causally connects them. Buddhism is not an inert object: it is a chain of events.” PG.3
Mark: Devedatta and Shakyamuni too were causally connected. That Gombrich fails to see that SGI is to Buddhism as Devedatta was to Shakyamuni, is because he is a practicing Christian. I use Gombrich to prove that the Lotus Sutra was as likely to have been spoken by the Buddha, not to prove that SGI is a legitimate expression of Buddhism.
Stace: Anyway, I do not think the article you presented puts forth the superiority of any teaching over the other but simply points out that there are things in the canon which were added and that this to be understood in an orally preserved teaching, but we can separate the wheat for the chaff and know what the Buddha said.
Mark: For several centuries it was an orally preserved and transmitted teaching. The moment that writing came to the fore was the end of orally preserved and transmitted teachings but the Fuji school maintains this archaic practice, while going against what Nichiren Daishonin taught. They should grateful not having to memorize Sutras and Goshos but instead, they just make things up [having neither the Enlightenment nor the disciplie of the early practitioners of Buddhism]. When one understand the reality of the Buddha one knows the Buddha’s word as well as the Buddha’s behavior. Stace: I am cannot, I mean physically cannot, force my brain to take most religious statement literally and therefor will never be a true believer. I love Dharma and Liberation wherever it be found, as there are so many flowers and scents to delight our senses I believe there are many pathways to liberation. I do not doubt the Lotus, Nichirens teachings, and the teachings Kempon Hokke offers such a pathway but I will never believe that it is the only door.
Mark: Namu Myoho renge kyo, Gohonzon, Lotus Sutra, Shakyamuni Buddha, and Nichiren Daishonin is the only pathway. Certainly, not a living mentor in the seat of the Law.
You too be well.
You can say and quote what you like the preponderance of evidence is against you. It matters to you it doesn’t matter to me. You think I can’t have faith without believing in a person but my adherance is to the truth as I see it. You see it differently, no problem. But when it’s your way or the highway I think most people will be on the road and your threats and recriminations don’t matter. I’m not defending the SGI in many ways they share the same bad qualities that you do, but only in your imagination are they as bad as you say.
You are not looking at either matter objectively. You have bought into the Hinayana and SGI PR and propaganda. When the top SGI salried senior leaders forfeit their exorbitant salaries, you can talk.
Acytually those are not my sources at all. You’re arguing that the sky isn’t blue.
Do you think I should take it that Shakyamuni not having preached the Lotus Sutra is just slander by the SGI, and they have involved the majority of Buddhist scholars, or is it just your insistance on orthodox tradition being infallable that makes you say it?